tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post7582919197206585056..comments2023-11-02T08:28:08.286-05:00Comments on Rany on the Royals: "The Epic" Is Supposed to Refer to His Name, Not His Workload.Ranyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09713226276377020284noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-9945670251455767462010-02-08T16:48:52.431-06:002010-02-08T16:48:52.431-06:00reading leak fusion deiuhfonskh kkkkvksa sentence ...reading leak fusion deiuhfonskh kkkkvksa sentence edged codesection paraphrases sure galvanizing <br />lolikneri havaqatsuAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-21540503874486037102008-05-01T12:54:00.000-05:002008-05-01T12:54:00.000-05:00Gary doesn't use common sense.Gary doesn't use common sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-77099118937030852672008-05-01T09:45:00.000-05:002008-05-01T09:45:00.000-05:00Rany,The link works and the article should be requ...Rany,<BR/><BR/>The link works and the article should be required reading for pitch count discussions. I take issue with a couple of the conclusions, but it is certainly a very well constructed argument.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-37044545502192507022008-05-01T09:14:00.000-05:002008-05-01T09:14:00.000-05:00Anonymous at 8:08:Great post. I wish I had said i...Anonymous at 8:08:<BR/><BR/>Great post. I wish I had said it as eloquently.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-82695102563674872252008-05-01T08:26:00.000-05:002008-05-01T08:26:00.000-05:00Bill James did a little research on what makes a g...Bill James did a little research on what makes a great bullpen in his latest book of essays. He listed the best bullpens ever and the worst bullpens ever. The 2000 Royals were on the worst ever list. That may help explain why KC starters were left in too long that season.<BR/><BR/>FJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-43212254017037387462008-05-01T08:08:00.000-05:002008-05-01T08:08:00.000-05:00Too much annacdotal stuff on this. Sabathia threw ...Too much annacdotal stuff on this. Sabathia threw 250 innings and now he can't get anyone out etc. Bob Gibson was . . . It's the rooster crowed, the sun came up logic. The fact that one follows the other doesn't necessarily imply a causal relationship. <BR/><BR/>Effective pitchers throw fewer pitches per inning than ineffective pitchers so they can go deeper in the game. Effective pitchers Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-86983005189244112412008-04-30T23:17:00.000-05:002008-04-30T23:17:00.000-05:00You only need to look at C.C. Sabathia to see what...You only need to look at C.C. Sabathia to see what a spike in pitch count will do. He hadn't throw over 200 innings the last three years, and last year went over 250. This year, he looks like Jose Lima. Throwing so many more pitches simply overtaxes the arm...plain and simple. It is as true for pitches in 1 game as is innings over a season.<BR/><BR/>If your mechanics get nasty because you're Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-7578145480476319312008-04-30T22:29:00.000-05:002008-04-30T22:29:00.000-05:00Well said, as always. I think the old "Christy Mat...Well said, as always. <BR/><BR/>I think the old "Christy Mathewson and Bob Gibson did it" defense is faulty on so many levels, but primarily these two stick out:<BR/><BR/>-the bottom half of a Japanese pro lineup or a MLB lineup from 1900-1980 does not compare to the bottom half of an MLB lineup in 2008. Well, maybe the Giants. <BR/><BR/>-yeah, those guys did it, but you don't hear about the 8https://www.blogger.com/profile/00897636875216996092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-84386317863737043662008-04-30T20:30:00.000-05:002008-04-30T20:30:00.000-05:00Rany,Thanks. I used too many words and muddied th...Rany,<BR/><BR/>Thanks. I used too many words and muddied the waters with my first post. The question is indeed "how many?" and I think that my issue was with 100 as a number that didn't make sense to me.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your discussion and while I would have (somewhat arbitrarily) put the abuse number at 130, I will defer to Woolner. I am in agreement with the conditions in your last Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-31380897206246973432008-04-30T19:54:00.000-05:002008-04-30T19:54:00.000-05:00As a one time thing I have no problem with it. Mec...As a one time thing I have no problem with it. Meche is a high pitch count guy and is usually around 100 after 6 innings so I'm hoping this was just a fluke.ChasingMoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403850105548136267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-61212851062168351962008-04-30T17:58:00.000-05:002008-04-30T17:58:00.000-05:00With regard to Soria, is there any indication that...With regard to Soria, is there any indication that having a seriously LOW pitch count, repeatedly, in low-stress situations, has any effect on the effectiveness of a pitcher?<BR/><BR/>I just have this feeling that, from a Bill James standpoint, Soria should be getting MORE innings in at <I>least</I> a middle-relief role (if not a starting role). Why put him <I>only</I> in save situations? Isn'tShelbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04514566296885869946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-47372144916126495092008-04-30T16:01:00.000-05:002008-04-30T16:01:00.000-05:00Gary,The short answer for why I think that pitch c...Gary,<BR/><BR/>The short answer for why I think that pitch counts are so important is this: I believe overworking starting pitchers - as defined by excessive pitch counts - increases that pitcher's risk of injury significantly.<BR/><BR/>If you want proof, the definitive research on the topic that links high pitch counts to both a decreased effectiveness in the short term and an elevated injury Ranyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09713226276377020284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-42358039365389794042008-04-30T15:18:00.000-05:002008-04-30T15:18:00.000-05:00Allow me to re-phrase:Rany, you (and many of the r...Allow me to re-phrase:<BR/><BR/>Rany, you (and many of the readership) seem absolutely convinced that pitch counts are vital to the success of a pitching staff. Yet I am unconvinced.<BR/><BR/>Please explain why you feel so strongly that pitch counts are of such importance.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-20091137278658634952008-04-30T15:08:00.000-05:002008-04-30T15:08:00.000-05:00Gentlemen,It takes more than the electronic equiva...Gentlemen,<BR/><BR/>It takes more than the electronic equivalent of saying it louder, and unsubstantiated personal opinion to convince me. Does anyone out there have anything other than their gut feel that Dusty Baker destroys arms?<BR/><BR/>None of you have given me any data I can use to understand why you think that 100-110 is the correct pitch count for every pitcher on the Royals staff. Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-19797039081382482562008-04-30T14:30:00.000-05:002008-04-30T14:30:00.000-05:00Gibson also openly spoke about being able to "coas...Gibson also openly spoke about being able to "coast" against certain parts of the lineup.<BR/><BR/>The scoring environment was ENTIRELY different in the 60s, due to bigger ballparks, lack of player weightlifting/strength, higher mounds, larger strikezones, etc. etc. etc. This meant there may have only been 2 or 3 hitters in the entire lineup who could actually hurt you - thus the option to coast Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-84850300119220431812008-04-30T13:58:00.000-05:002008-04-30T13:58:00.000-05:00Gibson, Spahn, and Marichal never had pitch counts...Gibson, Spahn, and Marichal never had pitch counts and it didn't seem to affect their career. Today's pitchers are wimps. Six innings is a quality start? What a joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-71566648823130506902008-04-30T13:49:00.000-05:002008-04-30T13:49:00.000-05:00Great post Rany. I was wondering the same thing e...Great post Rany. I was wondering the same thing earlier this month when both Bannister and Grienke had starts over 100 pitches, including two in a row for Grienke. Someone needs to remind Trey about Dusty Baker. Have Trey talk to both Kerry Wood and Mark Prior. Dusty abused both of them in 2003 for the Cubs. I hope our pitchers will be fine come July.<BR/><BR/>Also, great blog, keep up the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-84566659600173988172008-04-30T11:49:00.000-05:002008-04-30T11:49:00.000-05:00A poster asked why arbitrary pitch counts exist.Mi...A poster asked why arbitrary pitch counts exist.<BR/><BR/>Mike Marshall, among others, has studied the mechanics of pitching, and given the current state of baseball, most experts think pitchers, in general, start to see their mechanics deteriorate at about the 100-110 pitch mark. When mechanics are deteriorating, injury risk SOARS.<BR/><BR/>So, yeah, there is justification for what some deem "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-37491463171267393962008-04-30T11:46:00.000-05:002008-04-30T11:46:00.000-05:00Someone posted that we had our best pitchers in th...Someone posted that we had our best pitchers in the rotation.<BR/><BR/>That's a laugh.<BR/><BR/>Our single best pitcher is stuck in the bullpen, and headed for only 65 innings or so.<BR/><BR/>As for pitch counts, the mind set that a tired starter is preferable to a lesser talented but fresh reliever is wrong. Now, if ALL we were concerned with was winning NOW, with no regard for the future, or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-10524299666510416272008-04-30T10:45:00.000-05:002008-04-30T10:45:00.000-05:00Any action overdone is bad for the body, especiall...Any action overdone is bad for the body, especially one which is as unnatural as throwing a baseball. It isn't a hard concept.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-39986842827611068132008-04-30T09:53:00.000-05:002008-04-30T09:53:00.000-05:00Rany,I’m not with you on this one. I think you ha...Rany,<BR/><BR/>I’m not with you on this one. I think you have fixated on pitching and specifically on pitch counts to the detriment of your ability to rationally analyze the sport in general and the Royals in particular. For the first season in over a decade, pitching is at the bottom of the Royals list of things that need improvement. This year you have strained your journalistic back yanking Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085503187232730359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-71882529211951496772008-04-30T09:48:00.000-05:002008-04-30T09:48:00.000-05:00You should have heard me ranting up and down the a...You should have heard me ranting up and down the aisles while trying to sell peanuts. Meche had 109 pitches AT THE START of the 7th; I was SHOCKED when he came out to start the inning. Off day coming up, Peralta AND Gobble both hadn't pitched since the Thursday before, so there was an easy path for the last 3 innings without stressing ANYONE, starter or reliever.<BR/><BR/>WHAT WAS THE POINT? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-26378288881960241222008-04-30T08:35:00.000-05:002008-04-30T08:35:00.000-05:00Hopefully Bob McClure was there to mention it, bec...Hopefully Bob McClure was there to mention it, because for all that time Trey was in Japan, Bob has been here. Bob deserves much credit for the improvements in the pitching staff, and I can't imagine he will stand by and watch Trey kill his pitchers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-61098558877016248422008-04-29T23:19:00.000-05:002008-04-29T23:19:00.000-05:00At least we didn't sign Meche for $126M. As far a...At least we didn't sign Meche for $126M. As far as I know, triple digits are not allowed.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00595065202881736378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3129904004334636055.post-53356269815750095182008-04-29T22:56:00.000-05:002008-04-29T22:56:00.000-05:00Thank you for addressing that pitch count. In Apr...Thank you for addressing that pitch count. In April, for this Royals' team, it's unneeded.<BR/><BR/>I'm worried about Meche's mental state. I haven't seen him pitch, but I keep reading how he's angry and stomping around the mound.<BR/><BR/>Then on Sunday what does he do the first three batters? <BR/>Rios Triples.<BR/>Rios scores on a wild pitch.<BR/>Overbay flies out to right.<BR/>Rolen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12275276577448843877noreply@blogger.com